Hi,

I wonder if anyone out there is flying a trike professionally, i.e.
makes a living from it - except for flight instructors, of course. I
have shopped around a bit and basically found people offering

- sightseeing trips
- surveillance flights
- documentation (arial views of whatever)
- banner towing

and a few more exotic activities like herd monitoring etc. Virtually
no-one offers transportation services, probably due to the weight and
speed limitations of trikes and their dependance on good weather
conditions. Most of what I found in Germany seems to be offered by
either hobby pilots or flight schools as a mere add-on to their normal
acitivites and does not seem to be their actual business. It may also be
that the market in Germany is just not big enough, e.g. the web site of
Germany's leading magazin for marketing and advertising does not even
mention banner towing... Things may be different in the US, though.

So, if anyone has or knows of a "business plan" for trike pilots I'd be
glad to hear your ideas or follow your links.

Regards, Oli

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ABB - Vote Kerry. Please. www.johnkerry.com/onlinehq
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Oli Kai Paulus Bergstraße 18 Fon +49.30.28390731
D-10115 Berlin Fon +49.172.3914294

Oli, there is no business plan for trike/ultralight pilots.
It wouldn't be legal in Germany... so no one offers transportation etc :-)

make your CPL, buy a real plane, start a business and be broke within a
year without problems.

Maik

Oli Kai Paulus wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I wonder if anyone out there is flying a trike professionally, i.e.
> makes a living from it - except for flight instructors, of course. I
> have shopped around a bit and basically found people offering
>
> - sightseeing trips
> - surveillance flights
> - documentation (arial views of whatever)
> - banner towing
>
> and a few more exotic activities like herd monitoring etc. Virtually
> no-one offers transportation services, probably due to the weight and
> speed limitations of trikes and their dependance on good weather
> conditions. Most of what I found in Germany seems to be offered by
> either hobby pilots or flight schools as a mere add-on to their normal
> acitivites and does not seem to be their actual business. It may also be
> that the market in Germany is just not big enough, e.g. the web site of
> Germany's leading magazin for marketing and advertising does not even
> mention banner towing... Things may be different in the US, though.
>
> So, if anyone has or knows of a "business plan" for trike pilots I'd be
> glad to hear your ideas or follow your links.
>
> Regards, Oli
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> ABB - Vote Kerry. Please. www.johnkerry.com/onlinehq
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Oli Kai Paulus Bergstraße 18 Fon +49.30.28390731
> D-10115 Berlin Fon +49.172.3914294
>

Oli Kai Paulus > wrote in -
online.com:

> - sightseeing trips

Not legal to carry pax for money on sightseeing trips in a trike in the US.
Probably illegal in Germany as well.

> - surveillance flights
> - documentation (arial views of whatever)
> - banner towing

Excuse me??!?! Banner towing on a trike????? <chuckle>

>Excuse me??!?! Banner towing on a trike????? <chuckle>

Small ones.

Quent

Op Thu, 02 Sep 2004 16:29:39 +0200 schreef Oli Kai Paulus
>:
>Hi,
>I wonder if anyone out there is flying a trike professionally, i.e.
>makes a living from it - except for flight instructors, of course. I
>have shopped around a bit and basically found people offering
>
>- sightseeing trips
Is interesting, when on a good location, and enough potential
customers..........the weather in Europe (Germany) is a problem
In some European countries you have to be an instructor to offer
introduction flights with passengers.....

>- surveillance flights
In Holland a police department was using an Ultra Light for
surveillance flights. They sold the plane for some years and are using
a VLA now.
The slow speed of the Ultra Light, and open vieuw made it possible to
make good quality pictures. Policeman with a licence!
The army had some trikes (I know in Holland and the UK) the marines
had an education in secret operations. It was proffesional but the
project was stopped and the trikes were sold.

>- documentation (arial views of whatever)
I had a demand from an institute that was monitoring the quality of
wood in India and the illegal cut of trees in the bush.
Mounting videocamara's on the trike was neccesary. Project is done in
India. In Europe this kind of flights are aereal work and are not
allowed according the rules in most euroean countries.

>- banner towing
Illegal in Holland (althoug I tried several times heheheh ;-))
In France I know some are earning a living with bannertowing!

There are some things left:
Paradrop (illegal in Holland, Germany as well I think). Allowed in
France, that's for sure!
Spray crop:
Illegal in Holland, Germany I do not know.
France allowed.

Earning a living in aviation?
Only a few succeeded.

Succes
Oscar (Cosmos trike dealer , instructor, and not earning enough in
business to survive!)

Juan Jimenez wrote:
> Not legal to carry pax for money on sightseeing trips in a trike in the US.
> Probably illegal in Germany as well.

commercial sightseeing trips on trikes are legal in Germany and are
offered at several airports, e.g.
www.lukasbader.de/gutscheine_rundfluege_tandemfluege.htm or
www.strassham.de/rf_home.htm. I'm surprised to learn that it's illegal
in the US.

> Excuse me??!?! Banner towing on a trike????? <chuckle>

Well, it's technically feasible and and it's legal in Germany. Of
course, the banner size is reduced compared to more powerful aircrafts.

Regards, Oli

----------------------------------------------------------------------
ABB - Vote Kerry. Please. www.johnkerry.com/onlinehq
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oli Kai Paulus Bergstraße 18 Fon +49.30.28390731
D-10115 Berlin Fon +49.172.3914294

Maik wrote:
> Oli, there is no business plan for trike/ultralight pilots.
> It wouldn't be legal in Germany... so no one offers transportation etc :-)

Are you sure? At least sightseeing trips are legal, cf. my other
posting. I have not mastered the Luftverkehrsgesetz so far, so there may
be differences between round trips and point-to-point trips, or if you
want to offer a regular or sporadic service. There even seems to be a
distinction between trips offered "for a fee" (privat gegen Gebühr) and
"commercial" (gewerblich) trips, but I'm not sure. Do you know it more
precisely?

> make your CPL, buy a real plane, start a business and be broke within a
> year without problems.

hm, not exactly what I have in mind... :)

Regards, Oli

----------------------------------------------------------------------
ABB - Vote Kerry. Please. www.johnkerry.com/onlinehq
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oli Kai Paulus Bergstraße 18 Fon +49.30.28390731
D-10115 Berlin Fon +49.172.3914294

Osca® wrote:
> Is interesting, when on a good location, and enough potential
> customers..........the weather in Europe (Germany) is a problem

Well, my area (Berlin/Potsdam) surely has the potential, but there is
some competition and the weather is not always favorable, yes.

I think the key is marketing, as in every business. You will have to
arrange cooperations with hotels, tour operators, fair and congress
organizations, etc., you'llave to h have someone distributing leaflets
in clubs, bars and at festivals, the whole works. I probably would not
focus on individual passengers though, but rather on longer-term deals
e.g. in banner towing for the marketing departments of large companies,
they often have some money to throw around. But then, I'm really all new
to this and may be entirely wrong :)

> India. In Europe this kind of flights are aereal work and are not
> allowed according the rules in most euroean countries.

Hm, I'll have to check this.

> In France I know some are earning a living with bannertowing!

Do you have a link?

> Earning a living in aviation?
> Only a few succeeded.

Still maybe worth a try?

> Succes

Thanks.

> Oscar (Cosmos trike dealer , instructor, and not earning enough in
> business to survive!)

Hm. Due to your location maybe? What do you reckon your main
disadvantage? My own instructor is a one-person company and seems to
make his living from it, more or less.

Regards, Oli

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ABB - Vote Kerry. Please. www.johnkerry.com/onlinehq
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oli Kai Paulus Bergstraße 18 Fon +49.30.28390731
D-10115 Berlin Fon +49.172.3914294

Download the rules from LBA and search the news: de.rec.luftfahrt for
commercial flight discussions... in german of cource.

Or just call the LBA and tell them want you want to do. After a good
laugh they will catch enough O2 to answer all your questions :-)

Maik

Oli Kai Paulus wrote:
> Maik wrote:
>
>> Oli, there is no business plan for trike/ultralight pilots.
>> It wouldn't be legal in Germany... so no one offers transportation etc
>> :-)
>
>
> Are you sure? At least sightseeing trips are legal, cf. my other
> posting. I have not mastered the Luftverkehrsgesetz so far, so there may
> be differences between round trips and point-to-point trips, or if you
> want to offer a regular or sporadic service. There even seems to be a
> distinction between trips offered "for a fee" (privat gegen Gebühr) and
> "commercial" (gewerblich) trips, but I'm not sure. Do you know it more
> precisely?
>
>> make your CPL, buy a real plane, start a business and be broke within
>> a year without problems.
>
>
> hm, not exactly what I have in mind... :)
>
> Regards, Oli
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> ABB - Vote Kerry. Please. www.johnkerry.com/onlinehq
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Oli Kai Paulus Bergstraße 18 Fon +49.30.28390731
> D-10115 Berlin Fon +49.172.3914294

To assume from ads that someting is legal is a bit easy and not always
right.

The first one is a flight instructor and company who can offer those
flights legally

And on the second website it is not clear what they are and how legal
that is. I would thing it looks not legal. They are nowhere telling you
that they are instructors, having a flight company or that they are
making it for nonprofit privat use.

Ask them both. it will be the fastest way to get the info about
"How-To-make money-out-of-my-hobby"

Maik

Oli Kai Paulus wrote:

> Juan Jimenez wrote:
>
>> Not legal to carry pax for money on sightseeing trips in a trike in
>> the US. Probably illegal in Germany as well.
>
>
> commercial sightseeing trips on trikes are legal in Germany and are
> offered at several airports, e.g.
> www.lukasbader.de/gutscheine_rundfluege_tandemfluege.htm or
> www.strassham.de/rf_home.htm. I'm surprised to learn that it's illegal
> in the US.
>
>> Excuse me??!?! Banner towing on a trike????? <chuckle>
>
>
> Well, it's technically feasible and and it's legal in Germany. Of
> course, the banner size is reduced compared to more powerful aircrafts.
>
> Regards, Oli
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> ABB - Vote Kerry. Please. www.johnkerry.com/onlinehq
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Oli Kai Paulus Bergstraße 18 Fon +49.30.28390731
> D-10115 Berlin Fon +49.172.3914294

Maik wrote:
> Download the rules from LBA and search the news: de.rec.luftfahrt for
> commercial flight discussions... in german of cource.
>
> Or just call the LBA and tell them want you want to do. After a good
> laugh they will catch enough O2 to answer all your questions :-)

I'll try ... at least the former :)

Regards, Oli

----------------------------------------------------------------------
ABB - Vote Kerry. Please. www.johnkerry.com/onlinehq
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oli Kai Paulus Bergstraße 18 Fon +49.30.28390731
D-10115 Berlin Fon +49.172.3914294

Maik wrote:
> The first one is a flight instructor and company who can offer those
> flights legally

ok.

> And on the second website it is not clear what they are and how legal
> that is. I would thing it looks not legal. They are nowhere telling you
> that they are instructors, having a flight company or that they are
> making it for nonprofit privat use.

hm.

> Ask them both. it will be the fastest way to get the info about
> "How-To-make money-out-of-my-hobby"

I will. Thank you.

Regards, Oli

----------------------------------------------------------------------
ABB - Vote Kerry. Please. www.johnkerry.com/onlinehq
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oli Kai Paulus Bergstraße 18 Fon +49.30.28390731
D-10115 Berlin Fon +49.172.3914294

(QDurham) wrote in news:20040903004405.23728.00000061@mb-
m12.aol.com:

>>Excuse me??!?! Banner towing on a trike????? <chuckle>
>
> Small ones.

Oh. That explains it. <grin>

Oli Kai Paulus > wrote in
:

> commercial sightseeing trips on trikes are legal in Germany and are
> offered at several airports, e.g.

I guess German aviation regulatory common sense is not quite up to par with
German engineering... <shrug>

> Well, it's technically feasible and and it's legal in Germany. Of
> course, the banner size is reduced compared to more powerful
> aircrafts.

....and if the banner is smaller, that means the aircraft has to fly lower,
and therefore closer, to the people so they can read it. Hmm. Methinks
there's yet another safety issue here.

Yes : " Bright Microlites" , Bright , Victoria , Australia 3741



"Oli Kai Paulus" > wrote in message
...
> Hi,
>
> I wonder if anyone out there is flying a trike professionally, i.e.
> makes a living from it - except for flight instructors, of course. I
> have shopped around a bit and basically found people offering
>
> - sightseeing trips
> - surveillance flights
> - documentation (arial views of whatever)
> - banner towing
>
> and a few more exotic activities like herd monitoring etc. Virtually
> no-one offers transportation services, probably due to the weight and
> speed limitations of trikes and their dependance on good weather
> conditions. Most of what I found in Germany seems to be offered by
> either hobby pilots or flight schools as a mere add-on to their normal
> acitivites and does not seem to be their actual business. It may also be
> that the market in Germany is just not big enough, e.g. the web site of
> Germany's leading magazin for marketing and advertising does not even
> mention banner towing... Things may be different in the US, though.
>
> So, if anyone has or knows of a "business plan" for trike pilots I'd be
> glad to hear your ideas or follow your links.
>
> Regards, Oli
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> ABB - Vote Kerry. Please. www.johnkerry.com/onlinehq
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Oli Kai Paulus Bergstraße 18 Fon +49.30.28390731
> D-10115 Berlin Fon +49.172.3914294
>

ian .at.bendigo wrote:
> Yes : " Bright Microlites" , Bright , Victoria , Australia 3741

thanks, they seem to offer sightseeing trips and work as instructors as
well.

Regards, Oli

----------------------------------------------------------------------
ABB - Vote Kerry. Please. www.johnkerry.com/onlinehq
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oli Kai Paulus Bergstraße 18 Fon +49.30.28390731
D-10115 Berlin Fon +49.172.3914294

Maik wrote:
> It wouldn't be legal in Germany... so no one offers transportation etc :-)
> make your CPL, buy a real plane, start a business and be broke within a
> year without problems.

I have looked around a bit and as it seems, you may use your ultralight
for commercial purposes without any restrictions. You may need some
additions to your SPL (to transport people, to tow banners) but nothing
like a CPL. Commercial usage of ULs is allowed in Germany, see e.g.
de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultraleicht or the thread in
www.pilots24.com/forum/viewtopic_dulv_inc.php?t=2388 (both resources in
German).

Regards, Oli

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ABB - Vote Kerry. Please. www.johnkerry.com/onlinehq
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oli Kai Paulus Bergstraße 18 Fon +49.30.28390731
D-10115 Berlin Fon +49.172.3914294